EU Referendum
LEAVE or REMAIN
(a politically non-partisan view - DA)
A difficult decision even with good
(quality? - DA) information.
Who do you trust?
(the most! - DA)
Winners and Losers - which is which? - DA
Voting must be realistically and consciously decided. The only point that is known and easily verifiable is that a General Election is a regular opportunity to vote to change a government. This decision is a one-off and, effectively, there is no second chance. If you are NOT in business and are an ordinary voter (the majority? - DA) then the choice is possibly more about immigration and security issues. Trading/finance takes a back seat. Who is telling MORE of the truth? Actual lying is (realistically) unlikely - too much to lose IF found out, which IS likely.
There are risks in voting either way
Experts (? - DA), politicians (! - DA) and businesses BIG/medium/small are divided. People have to weigh up the risks and potential benefits of each course of action for themselves. It seems a simple choice so why do many people find this difficult?
The EU Referendum is important and a quality decision is essential.
To make a decision is easy and takes no time,
but to make the right decision takes a little longer - LB.
Unfortunately, the very public debate has confused the many. Be assured that you are not alone (absolutely - DA). Politics (and voting - DA) offers a stark choice - the ONE or the OTHER. In or Out. There is no third option. This is the problem. Both groups make good points and there are many voters who realise this. The issue is that those people do not realise that... they realise. This leads to their confusion.
Politicians are what they are. Not necessarily untrustworthy, but they just ignore anything that does not support their case. They may be passionate though effectively mislead and misdirect. All reading from the same hymn sheet. The 'debate' is effectively between two people - each oppositely polarised.
Should the people democratically decide to leave the EU then PM Cameron et al can just blame the people if things go 'belly up'. That will not happen overnight, but whenever and whatever doesn't work out (anything - DA) the comments are already too apparent. The script prepared. Already rehearsed. That something is said does not make it a completely true statement (or JUST True - DA). It is not necessarily untrue, but perhaps just incomplete information. The convenient part. This is the world of politics (an alien land for most - DA). Be very careful about what's said (especially unsaid!!! - DA). Rather like voting in a General Election: a vote is considered 100% in agreement with everything that a Party stands for. Chances are that you don't like everything, but paradoxically there is no sensible choice. It's all or nothing.
Voting Mathematics, Unfairness and Absurdity
Possible Cause?
Politics
Why are passports needed to (legally) enter the UK if 'the free movement of people' is in force? The Schengen Agreement. The UK opted-out, so passports are a requirement.
UKIP presents a few interesting 'facts':
LEAVE
UKIP presents a few interesting 'facts':
LEAVE
- trade negotiation won't take years, but 'within 48hrs'. The UK is the EU's most valuable customer
- trade by 137 countries with the EU happens without free movement of people (Norway, Switzerland, Canada and others). The UK is the 5th largest economy, and the EU's best customer. Strike deals with anyone, control borders and have a fair and secure immigration system of our own
- EU costs UK £55million every day (maybe - DA) in subscription fees and £150 billion a year in added costs. The UK is one of the EU's biggest funders
- food is £45 more expensive (monthly average for a family) according to the IEA. After Brexit, prices would fall by 8% "on day one", so predicts Prof. Patrick Minford (Cardiff University). The EU thinking of putting VAT on food, medicines and children's clothes (apparently - DA)
- the EU failed in Yugoslavia and provoked a war in Ukraine, can't control its borders or manage the migrant crisis. Security experts say that the reason a Paris-style attack hasn't occurred in the UK yet is because we are an island and can police our borders. We have the best security and intelligence services in Europe by far.
- Mr Cameron's renegotiations must be presented to the European Parliament for approval - after the vote (if successful). Can be rejected by 700 MEPs after a remain choice has been made. Some new EU laws are being held back until after the vote (apparently - DA)
- the EU is collapsing (no doubt about that - DA), the Euro doesn't work and its borderless regime is breaking up. The migrant crisis is overwhelming and European 'solidarity' is coming to an end.
- the betrayal of all the war dead (WWI and WWII) who gave all. Sacrificed themselves. The grief of the living. The hypocrisy of voting REMAIN and remembering the Somme. How can that ever be reconciled. Over 19,000 killed and some 58,000 casualties on the FIRST day alone. And that's just the British. They were massacred. Even today (1st July 2016), remains of the unknown are still discovered. It's awful.
- the EU wants (needs? - DA) the UK's money and weight to try and shore things up and prevent other countries leaving (they only need a nudge from the Brexit camp - DA)
- under the Lisbon Treaty (2009) the EU is creating integrated European military forces - a 'common security and defence policy'. The EU Naval Force, EU Air Transport Command, EU Military Staff, battle groups and rapid reaction forces already exist, including British forces which will come under EU command. (Military of the European Union)
- a trade agreement being negotiated in secret between the EU and USA (TTIP) will open up the NHS to US corporations who will be able to sue for access to our health services (legally: cannot deny them - DA)
- the next seven states to join the EU will be Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey. Turkey has been 'fast-tracked' and will (hypocritically - DA) get visa-free access to the EU from this year (2016). Citizens of these states will have a right to settle in the UK.
- There is the obvious and a real gem of a rejoinder that WHATever and WHENever things do not appear to go as planned IN THE FUTURE, any successful Brexit (Grexit) result enables the government of the day to blame the voting electorate for the problem(s).
Consider:
Over a quarter of a million people migrate to the UK from the EU every year (relocate? - DA). This is the equivalent of a city the size of Newcastle every year. EU law means all members must accept 'the free movement of people' (that's how a Democratic Union must work, isn't it? - DA). Many immigrants contribute to our society. They also have an impact on public services. Experts (? - DA) disagree on the overall effect.
The EU is expanding to include: Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey (don't forget Bosnia and Kosovo - DA). When we joined, there were just 9 member states. Now there are 28, the most recent being Romania (2007), Bulgaria (2007) and Croatia (2013). Five more countries are in the queue to join, including Turkey, totalling 89 million people. When they join, they will have the same rights as other member states.
The EU has changed enormously since the UK joined the 'Common Market' in 1973. The EU has taken control over more and more areas (isn't this the meaning of Federal? - DA) such as our borders, public services and VAT. The need to prop up the Euro means that more and more powers (or is that an ego power trip? - DA) will be taken by the EU.
EU law overrules UK law. This stops the British public from being able to vote out the politicians who make our laws. EU judges have already overruled British laws on issues like counter-terrorism powers, immigration, VAT and prisoner voting. The new 'deal' David Cameron negotiated recently (did we/didn't we want it? - DA) can be overturned by the European Court after our referendum.
The EU costs us at least £350 million a week. That's enough to build a new NHS hospital every week (so they keep saying - DA). We get less than half of this money back and we have no control over how it's spent - that's decided by politicians and officials in Brussels, not by the people we elect (apparently - DA).
You don't have to be a member of the EU to trade with it. Countries across the world trade with the EU without being members of it. Switzerland is not in the EU and exports even more to the EU than we do. Some big banks and multinationals think the EU is in their interests. Small and medium-sized businesses think differently. Only 6% of UK firms export to the EU, yet all have to obey EU rules (law/directives - DA).
While we are in the EU, the UK isn't allowed to negotiate our own trade deals (what about? Looks like BIG/Government business only. NOT the small or medium-sized. Specious - DA). This means we currently have no trade deal with key allies such as Australia, New Zealand or the USA - or important growing economies India, China or Brazil. Instead of making a deal which is best for the UK, we have to wait for 27 other countries to agree it (all of them? Specious - DA). Most small businesses say that Britain should take back the power to negotiate our own trade deals which we cannot do inside the EU (is that ONLY those 'deals' that cannot be done inside the EU or any deal? Unclear. Specious - DA).
The 'landing' at Dymchurch started in Dieppe, apparently ('the free movement of people' within Europe? - DA) so where did the 'vessel' come from? It implies/suggests collusion between the people smugglers and local countries. Sadly, the victims could have no idea of the power of the sea. That they make such a dangerous trip (unknowingly - DA) is understandable, but praying on these unfortunates is not. Trading of the UK with the UK is never mentioned, neither is the betrayal of millions of war dead as a direct result of two World Wars. There is no official Federal Europe yet (10.06.2016). And we are now actively engaged in a second war in Europe. The first was financial (and who won that? Here's a clue: the first letter is a G... DA)
The EU is expanding to include: Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Turkey (don't forget Bosnia and Kosovo - DA). When we joined, there were just 9 member states. Now there are 28, the most recent being Romania (2007), Bulgaria (2007) and Croatia (2013). Five more countries are in the queue to join, including Turkey, totalling 89 million people. When they join, they will have the same rights as other member states.
The EU has changed enormously since the UK joined the 'Common Market' in 1973. The EU has taken control over more and more areas (isn't this the meaning of Federal? - DA) such as our borders, public services and VAT. The need to prop up the Euro means that more and more powers (or is that an ego power trip? - DA) will be taken by the EU.
EU law overrules UK law. This stops the British public from being able to vote out the politicians who make our laws. EU judges have already overruled British laws on issues like counter-terrorism powers, immigration, VAT and prisoner voting. The new 'deal' David Cameron negotiated recently (did we/didn't we want it? - DA) can be overturned by the European Court after our referendum.
The EU costs us at least £350 million a week. That's enough to build a new NHS hospital every week (so they keep saying - DA). We get less than half of this money back and we have no control over how it's spent - that's decided by politicians and officials in Brussels, not by the people we elect (apparently - DA).
You don't have to be a member of the EU to trade with it. Countries across the world trade with the EU without being members of it. Switzerland is not in the EU and exports even more to the EU than we do. Some big banks and multinationals think the EU is in their interests. Small and medium-sized businesses think differently. Only 6% of UK firms export to the EU, yet all have to obey EU rules (law/directives - DA).
While we are in the EU, the UK isn't allowed to negotiate our own trade deals (what about? Looks like BIG/Government business only. NOT the small or medium-sized. Specious - DA). This means we currently have no trade deal with key allies such as Australia, New Zealand or the USA - or important growing economies India, China or Brazil. Instead of making a deal which is best for the UK, we have to wait for 27 other countries to agree it (all of them? Specious - DA). Most small businesses say that Britain should take back the power to negotiate our own trade deals which we cannot do inside the EU (is that ONLY those 'deals' that cannot be done inside the EU or any deal? Unclear. Specious - DA).
The 'landing' at Dymchurch started in Dieppe, apparently ('the free movement of people' within Europe? - DA) so where did the 'vessel' come from? It implies/suggests collusion between the people smugglers and local countries. Sadly, the victims could have no idea of the power of the sea. That they make such a dangerous trip (unknowingly - DA) is understandable, but praying on these unfortunates is not. Trading of the UK with the UK is never mentioned, neither is the betrayal of millions of war dead as a direct result of two World Wars. There is no official Federal Europe yet (10.06.2016). And we are now actively engaged in a second war in Europe. The first was financial (and who won that? Here's a clue: the first letter is a G... DA)
What is a War Crime? - Definition - List
International Criminal Court - Bemba
Nazi War Crimes The Last?
Blair
- Did you know that Angela Merkel is a PhD (from East Germany)
- Dr. Gordon Brown
- How does a weak EU member state support itself and compete fairly - it uses the same currency (Euro) as the stronger ones? Value goes up and down by the moment (mostly down - DA)
24.06.2016
It was definitely close: nationally.
OUT or LEAVE = 52% against IN or REMAIN = 48% with an average 72% turnout. But it is still a result. It is now the possible first step towards the EU breakup. French, Italian or Dutch (or...) desire a chance (referendum). So, WHATever the future holds, watch this space. It's NOT the end of the world.
Just time for change
posted by Louis Brothnias @ 6:04 am
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